Kelly, I loved everything about this piece!! As one who left religion in my teens & then left the idea of god behind a few years ago, I feel seen by your words.
Thank you for this article. For me a great article, comment, etc., isn't necessarily one I agree with. It's one that directs attention to something worth thinking about. That's certainly the case here.
For a long time I tried to think of a word I could use as an alternative to Dogma. I came up with the word Pragma, as in Dogma vs Pragma. I adopted it from the great cultural historian Jaques Barzun, who got it from William James who, as those in AA know, was considered by Bill W. as an honorary founder.
The question for me became: What is the difference between Dogma and Pragma?
The difference is that Pragma is willing to expose its ideas to a process of continuous feedback and correction for the purpose of continuous learning, change, and growth - and Dogma isn't - ever.
As religious institutions crumbled in the West, the religious impulse grew stronger, not weaker, and moved to politics, or as I like to call it, The Land of Polarization. A very unhappy and unhealthy place where people live to feed their addiction to mood-altering through self-righteousness. One consequence is watching Dogma move from one Salvation System to another and caling it - "Progress."
As a Scapegoat Survivor it is impossible for me not to notice that Salvation Systems and their Doctrines are synonymous with Dogma, and that Dogma is entirely Scapegoat-Dependent.
Perhaps instead of another "Revolution" based on Dogma, we need a Transcendence,
as in Cultural Transcendence, based on the desire for continuous learning, change, and growth.
This might have the salutory effect of making us more modest and less murderous. It very well may be.
Gosh this is So Gorgeous & Full of such wisdom & insight, hard earned.
You perfectly captured what I lost (or possibly never had) …
the perfect words with your metaphor of mistaking your finger for the moon in the pointing to it!!! Dogma. Ugh.
And this:
“Find a tree and sit beneath it. Set aside the word “tree.”
Just observe.
When you get caught in thinking about the tree instead of being present to the tree,
let go of the word again.
Experience what we call a “tree” instead of the word for it.
Just for today. Give it five minutes.” 🤯🌳
I did this today~the Observing & Noticing; trying
& then trying again (& again & again) when I left the moment,
to awaken again, & saturate myself in sensory presence; to just ‘be.’ Ecstasy indeed.
And this: “That’s the paradox. Once you know, the method or vehicle you took to get there dissolves and I think that’s the very definition of liberation.”🤯✨♥️ (Indoctrination IS so unconscious!)
And this: “The more I find out for myself who I am NOT, the closer I get to who I AM.” Yessssss!
I could go on and on commenting on this entire piece here~
More to dialogue with you another time about 12 step programs,
my 2 cents or 10 cents🙃😂 …my own musings from being on both sides & in the middle (so to speak) (of mostly Naranon, though some AA as well) & the fascinating way to capital S Self.
I want to pop in to WITD yet today, but so grateful to have read this piece. Look forward to digging in to more of your writing. I did an annual subscription today :-)
This comment! Gives me life! Thank you Colleen for this close read and commentary. The dialogue will continue. So excited to have this venue and readers like you. I love this exchange of energy and reciprocity. And thanks for supporting my writing. 🌻
“One day that being we call a tree will appear in place of the word, in place of the concept of tree. I thought you’d never notice. Ecstasy.” Beautiful!
And oh those self-delusions built on fear.
Great to meet you in Laurie’s workshop.
Fantastic job with the gorilla metaphor and the peeling back, btw. ❤️
Looking forward to "promised essay about scapegoating and family estrangement." The one you wrote today was great for me. I've been working with a newcomer who struggles with the higher power. Surprise! The group I set up is based on "Voices of Women in AA: Experience Strength and Hope" and for the first time in fifty years, I get to focus on recovery topics "for women by women." What an awakening! So I was reflecting on the newcomer's struggles and reviewing the many ways I tried to "get the spiritual part," landing eventually with Pema Chodron, one of her books a sponsee gave me for an anniversary, which led me to other books and recorded lectures. She is recovery-friendly and knowledgeable. Yes to no-dogma recovery! Thanks Kelly!
The women’s voices group sounds phenomenal. I love it. Check out the link at “patriarchal terminology” in the essay for a deeper feminist take on AA. And I adore Pema Chodron. 🌻
Thanks for referring me to your link at "patriarchal terminology." There, Lisa Kroencke, Executive Director of Magdalen House, writes that "One of the ways to address the issue [of patriarchal language in AA and the Big Book] is to stay and be the change they want to see. It is my opinion that if this is the method you used to get sober, then you are in its debt. What if there was no one there when you needed help? Being part of the solution, providing safe spaces for other women within the program, and creating recovery communities are critical to “service beyond self” and the very definition of feminism and spirituality." As you can see in my original comment, after around forty years dancing with the language of the Big Book, yet reading and studying it over and over, I was "guided" to start a women's group. In our group conscience, we decided women reading from the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions can use "pronouns they feel comfortable with." Some read "he," some "she," some "it," and I personally read in a way that doesn't refer to gender at all. I totally agree with Kroencke that women need safe spaces to get sober, and finally felt urgent and free enough to create one myself. We're entirely 12 Step/Tradition based yet use language and Conference-approved literature from the Grapevine that works for us. Every week I hear how this has helped women who for many years had stopped attending meetings. And one and a half years in, we're also seeing newcomers celebrate time. Great topic.
Beautiful. Way to pass it forward, Kirie. I really like the entire piece by Lisa Kroencke on both patriarchal terminology and the origins of the steps as gnostic. The gnostic gospels include women authors who were oppressed including Mary Magdalene. The gnostics were feminists and the feminist connection to the spiritual principles embedded in the steps is wondrous.
Such a great read! I always take so much away from your essays- I am most definitely going to sit under a being- formerly-known-as-a-tree this week. Best assignment ever. ❤️
I had a feeling to pick up my phone because I needed to find Kelley and I saw this post how to skin a gorilla and read it with complete fascination once again as if I am reading myself.
Absolutely brilliant, mistaking the finger pointing to the moon for the moon, and so many other metaphors that I have visited from time to time.
I can feel how deep you have gone into your recovery, intending a multi faceted jewel of wisdom, humor, and sheer delight.
I also wanted to do that workshop with Laurie Stone and her partner. I plan to get to one of them.
Then, in the end, I see my publication mentioned.
I am touched to the core. You wore my life. I feel so happy to have met you and to be part of your writing community and you as a sister.
Colleen is another rascal that we have to look out for.
I haven’t written yet about my cult, Life other than a little bit and my Memoir.
I love also that you’re distilling patriarchal language.
I look forward to your next piece and connecting with you again soon. I would really love to talk to you on the phone sometime.
Thinking about thinking (metacognitive rumination) is my favorite kind. Figuring out how my brain works is key to having a healthy pliability of mind in an otherwise dogmatic world.
Lately I’ve been examining how I might’ve misinterpreted messages I heard as a child - even messages intended to be encouraging, like, “You can always do better,” which I interpreted as, “You’ll never be good enough [to stop self-improvement].”
I was raised within a religious framework, as well. Now I get to watch my kids pick it apart like I did. Oh, joy!
Yeah it’s difficult to discern and then deconstruct the conditioning - it’s not about blame or who’s right or wrong or switching dogmas or doctrines to find the “right” one. It’s about consciousness and awareness, accessing true nature, original thought, and use of mind as a vehicle for consciousness. There’s no one way. Nothing wrong with wisdom traditions (religion) - wherever I go there I am. What does it (whatever it is) mean to me?
Kelly, I loved everything about this piece!! As one who left religion in my teens & then left the idea of god behind a few years ago, I feel seen by your words.
I can’t wait to read more 😍😍😍
Ooooh! I’m so glad you liked it, Mesa. I had fun writing it. Thank you! 🌻
Fantastic piece!
🐐🫶
May I include this in my Sunday Digest tomorrow?
I would LOVE that! Honored. 🫶
Thank you! Look for it tomorrow - sooo good!!!
Thank you for this article. For me a great article, comment, etc., isn't necessarily one I agree with. It's one that directs attention to something worth thinking about. That's certainly the case here.
For a long time I tried to think of a word I could use as an alternative to Dogma. I came up with the word Pragma, as in Dogma vs Pragma. I adopted it from the great cultural historian Jaques Barzun, who got it from William James who, as those in AA know, was considered by Bill W. as an honorary founder.
The question for me became: What is the difference between Dogma and Pragma?
The difference is that Pragma is willing to expose its ideas to a process of continuous feedback and correction for the purpose of continuous learning, change, and growth - and Dogma isn't - ever.
As religious institutions crumbled in the West, the religious impulse grew stronger, not weaker, and moved to politics, or as I like to call it, The Land of Polarization. A very unhappy and unhealthy place where people live to feed their addiction to mood-altering through self-righteousness. One consequence is watching Dogma move from one Salvation System to another and caling it - "Progress."
As a Scapegoat Survivor it is impossible for me not to notice that Salvation Systems and their Doctrines are synonymous with Dogma, and that Dogma is entirely Scapegoat-Dependent.
Perhaps instead of another "Revolution" based on Dogma, we need a Transcendence,
as in Cultural Transcendence, based on the desire for continuous learning, change, and growth.
This might have the salutory effect of making us more modest and less murderous. It very well may be.
Thank you again for your article!
All the best!
Thank you for this thoughtful, considered response. It resonates. Glad to have you in conversation!
Excellent advise, being present with a tree. I like the image you grabbed for that too. It looks like it has eyes. I love being present with trees.
Me too. I discovered (later in life than I’d like) that they were waiting for me to join them since forever.
Me too!!!!🥰
Gosh this is So Gorgeous & Full of such wisdom & insight, hard earned.
You perfectly captured what I lost (or possibly never had) …
the perfect words with your metaphor of mistaking your finger for the moon in the pointing to it!!! Dogma. Ugh.
And this:
“Find a tree and sit beneath it. Set aside the word “tree.”
Just observe.
When you get caught in thinking about the tree instead of being present to the tree,
let go of the word again.
Experience what we call a “tree” instead of the word for it.
Just for today. Give it five minutes.” 🤯🌳
I did this today~the Observing & Noticing; trying
& then trying again (& again & again) when I left the moment,
to awaken again, & saturate myself in sensory presence; to just ‘be.’ Ecstasy indeed.
And this: “That’s the paradox. Once you know, the method or vehicle you took to get there dissolves and I think that’s the very definition of liberation.”🤯✨♥️ (Indoctrination IS so unconscious!)
And this: “The more I find out for myself who I am NOT, the closer I get to who I AM.” Yessssss!
I could go on and on commenting on this entire piece here~
More to dialogue with you another time about 12 step programs,
my 2 cents or 10 cents🙃😂 …my own musings from being on both sides & in the middle (so to speak) (of mostly Naranon, though some AA as well) & the fascinating way to capital S Self.
I want to pop in to WITD yet today, but so grateful to have read this piece. Look forward to digging in to more of your writing. I did an annual subscription today :-)
This comment! Gives me life! Thank you Colleen for this close read and commentary. The dialogue will continue. So excited to have this venue and readers like you. I love this exchange of energy and reciprocity. And thanks for supporting my writing. 🌻
“One day that being we call a tree will appear in place of the word, in place of the concept of tree. I thought you’d never notice. Ecstasy.” Beautiful!
And oh those self-delusions built on fear.
Great to meet you in Laurie’s workshop.
Fantastic job with the gorilla metaphor and the peeling back, btw. ❤️
Thank you for reading, Holly! And the kind words. Super cool to meet you in the class. Love your Stack!
Aaahhh, thank you. :)
Looking forward to "promised essay about scapegoating and family estrangement." The one you wrote today was great for me. I've been working with a newcomer who struggles with the higher power. Surprise! The group I set up is based on "Voices of Women in AA: Experience Strength and Hope" and for the first time in fifty years, I get to focus on recovery topics "for women by women." What an awakening! So I was reflecting on the newcomer's struggles and reviewing the many ways I tried to "get the spiritual part," landing eventually with Pema Chodron, one of her books a sponsee gave me for an anniversary, which led me to other books and recorded lectures. She is recovery-friendly and knowledgeable. Yes to no-dogma recovery! Thanks Kelly!
Me too on the 🐐 essay! 🤞🏽
The women’s voices group sounds phenomenal. I love it. Check out the link at “patriarchal terminology” in the essay for a deeper feminist take on AA. And I adore Pema Chodron. 🌻
Thanks for referring me to your link at "patriarchal terminology." There, Lisa Kroencke, Executive Director of Magdalen House, writes that "One of the ways to address the issue [of patriarchal language in AA and the Big Book] is to stay and be the change they want to see. It is my opinion that if this is the method you used to get sober, then you are in its debt. What if there was no one there when you needed help? Being part of the solution, providing safe spaces for other women within the program, and creating recovery communities are critical to “service beyond self” and the very definition of feminism and spirituality." As you can see in my original comment, after around forty years dancing with the language of the Big Book, yet reading and studying it over and over, I was "guided" to start a women's group. In our group conscience, we decided women reading from the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions can use "pronouns they feel comfortable with." Some read "he," some "she," some "it," and I personally read in a way that doesn't refer to gender at all. I totally agree with Kroencke that women need safe spaces to get sober, and finally felt urgent and free enough to create one myself. We're entirely 12 Step/Tradition based yet use language and Conference-approved literature from the Grapevine that works for us. Every week I hear how this has helped women who for many years had stopped attending meetings. And one and a half years in, we're also seeing newcomers celebrate time. Great topic.
Beautiful. Way to pass it forward, Kirie. I really like the entire piece by Lisa Kroencke on both patriarchal terminology and the origins of the steps as gnostic. The gnostic gospels include women authors who were oppressed including Mary Magdalene. The gnostics were feminists and the feminist connection to the spiritual principles embedded in the steps is wondrous.
Such a great read! I always take so much away from your essays- I am most definitely going to sit under a being- formerly-known-as-a-tree this week. Best assignment ever. ❤️
Had to share this with you from @Amanda B Hinton @thelisteningfield
cause you’ll love her piece on @Sari Botton’s MM today and this on trees:
“we only speak when the wind
whispers through us, they said.
to remind you that everything about faith is a collaboration.
there’s nothing here to believe…”
Thank you, Kendall! Can’t wait to hear what the [____]s say! 🍃
Hello dear Kelly
I had a feeling to pick up my phone because I needed to find Kelley and I saw this post how to skin a gorilla and read it with complete fascination once again as if I am reading myself.
Absolutely brilliant, mistaking the finger pointing to the moon for the moon, and so many other metaphors that I have visited from time to time.
I can feel how deep you have gone into your recovery, intending a multi faceted jewel of wisdom, humor, and sheer delight.
I also wanted to do that workshop with Laurie Stone and her partner. I plan to get to one of them.
Then, in the end, I see my publication mentioned.
I am touched to the core. You wore my life. I feel so happy to have met you and to be part of your writing community and you as a sister.
Colleen is another rascal that we have to look out for.
I haven’t written yet about my cult, Life other than a little bit and my Memoir.
I love also that you’re distilling patriarchal language.
I look forward to your next piece and connecting with you again soon. I would really love to talk to you on the phone sometime.
Hugs a fuckerknuckles time
I decided to write about toilets
🌹♥️🌹
Oh I needed this. The opposite of despair is connection. ☀️
Yes, yes yes thank you sleep well
💛💛💛 Kelly!
Also, thank you for that meme--it's such a great reminder.
I love her work! @iuliastration on Instagram! Thank you for reading and commenting, Evelyn.
Thinking about thinking (metacognitive rumination) is my favorite kind. Figuring out how my brain works is key to having a healthy pliability of mind in an otherwise dogmatic world.
Lately I’ve been examining how I might’ve misinterpreted messages I heard as a child - even messages intended to be encouraging, like, “You can always do better,” which I interpreted as, “You’ll never be good enough [to stop self-improvement].”
I was raised within a religious framework, as well. Now I get to watch my kids pick it apart like I did. Oh, joy!
Yeah it’s difficult to discern and then deconstruct the conditioning - it’s not about blame or who’s right or wrong or switching dogmas or doctrines to find the “right” one. It’s about consciousness and awareness, accessing true nature, original thought, and use of mind as a vehicle for consciousness. There’s no one way. Nothing wrong with wisdom traditions (religion) - wherever I go there I am. What does it (whatever it is) mean to me?
Also Michelle you might enjoy reading this essay I wrote:
https://open.substack.com/pub/memoirland/p/secrets-of-the-two-by-twos?r=1fhxt&utm_medium=ios